tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 18, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PST
tonight on "all in" -- >> senator franken has admitted wrongdoing and the president hasn't. i think that's a very clear distinction. >> from the glass house white house, the president is chucking rocks. >> i'm automatically attracted to beautiful -- i just start kissing them. >> tonight, how trump got away with it. >> these are all horrible lies. all fabrications. >> and the lawsuits still going on. >> we can't let them change the most important election in our lifetime. then, new trouble for jared. >> i did not collude with russia, nor do i know of anyone else in the campaign who did so. >> the new reporting that contradicts what the son-in-law of the president said in his testimony to congress. >> i've been fully transparent in providing all requested information. plus, who could have predicted a major leak from the
keystone pipeline? the story behind these insane photos and the reality of the tax cut bill hitting a nerve. >> i really resent anybody saying that i'm just doing this for the rich. "all in" starts right now. >> give me a break. good evening from chicago. i'm chris hayes. tonight, the president of the united states stands accused of sexual misconduct by more than a dozen women over a period of decades. that fact has loomed over his administration's cautious response to the flood of revelations about abuse by powerful men, including, of course, allegations the republican candidate for u.s. senate in alabama sexual assaulted teenage girls as an adult in his 30s. last night after democratic senator al franken apologized to a woman who says he groped and forcibly kissed her a decade ago, releasing a photo of franken in a lewd pose while she was sleeping, the president could not resist taking a shot.
the al frankenstein picture is really bad. speaks 1,000 words. where do his hands go in pictures two through six while she sleeps? to think just last week he was lecturing anyone who would listen about sexual harassment and respect for women. the white house was asked about those comments today. >> if it's fair to investigate al franken and the allegation made by his accuser, is it also fair to investigate this president and the allegations of sexual misconduct made against him by more than a dozen women? >> look, i think that this was covered pretty extensively during the campaign. we addressed that then. the american people i think spoke very loud and clear when they elected this president. >> how is this different? >> i think in one case specifically senator franken has admitted wrongdoing and the president hasn't. i think that's a very clear distinction. >> well, for one thing, more of the american people voted for the president's opponent, but here's the other thing, the president has admitted to wrongdoing. he has, we've all heard it.
he bragged to billy bush about getting away with exactly, precisely the kind of behavior franken is accused of and worse. >> you know, i'm automatically attracted to beautiful women. i just start kissing them, it's like a magnet. i don't even wait. when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> then candidate trump dismissed those comments as, quote, locker room talk when that tape came out last year, insisting he'd never done the acts that he so boasted about. at least 15 women have accused him on the record with their names of unwanted physical contact. of kissing them. of groping them and grabbing them by the you know what. many of them spoke on camera about their experiences with this president. >> it was at that time where he turned to me and embraced me and gave me a kiss on the lips. and i remember being shocked and -- because i would have just thought to shake somebody's hand.
>> when we entered the room, he grabbed each of us tightly in a hug and kissed each one of us without asking permission. >> i feel the little, you know, this little grab. it's like, you know, feeling like a little cheek lift almost. and i stand up really tall. i'm shocked in a moment. and i turn around and look at him, and he doesn't look at me. he doesn't want to make eye contact with me. >> he then walked up to me and reached his right arm and grabbed my right arm. then his hand touched the right inside of my breast. >> he then grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me again very aggressively and placed his hand on my breast. i pushed his chest to put space between us and i said come on, man, get real. he repeated my words back to me, "get real," as he began thrusting his genitals. >> the person on my right who unbeknownst to me at that time
was donald trump put their hand up my skirt. he did touch my vagina through my underwear. absolutely. >> somehow or another, the arm rest in the seat disappeared and it was a real shock when all of a sudden his hands were all over me. when he started putting his hand up my skirt and that's was it. >> he pushed me up against the wall and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress again. and i had to physically say, what are you doing? stop it! it was a shocking thing to have him do this. >> i'm automatically attracted to beautiful women. i just start kissing them. it's like a magnet. you just kiss. i don't even wait. when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> besides bragging about putting his hands on women without their consent, the president has also boasted about exploiting his former role as a beauty pageant owner to leer at women in their underwear.
>> i'll go backstage before a show and everyone's getting dressed and ready and everything else and, you know, no men are anywhere. i'm allowed to go in because i'm the owner of the pageant and therefore i'm inspecting it. >> right, right. >> you're like a doctor. >> is everyone okay? they're standing there with no clothes. everybody okay? you see these incredible looking women. so i sort of get away with things like that. >> i get away with things like that. five former ms. teen usa contestants, teen usa told "buzzfeed" that trump did, in fact, walk in on them while they were changing. competitors in that pageant, they are as young as 14 years old. like roy moore, whose allies are pushing conspiracy theories to discredit his accusers, then candidate trump attacked the women who made those allegations against him, calling them liars and saying they were not attractive enough to assault. >> the stories are total fiction. they're 100% made up.
they never happened. i don't know who these people are. i look on television. i think it's a disgusting thing. some are doing it for probably a little fame. they get some free fame. it's a total setup. i was sitting with him on an airplane. and he went after me on the plane. yeah, i'm going to go after -- believe me, she would not be my first choice, that i can tell you. >> one of the president's accusers, former "apprentice" contestant summer zervos, has since sued president trump for defamation because he called her a liar and the president's lawyers have been fighting a subpoena filed in september for all documents related to allegations of assault or misconduct. a judge in new york could decide by the end of the year whether the case against the president can move forward. joy reid is my colleague here at msnbc and my friend and the host of "a.m. joy." well, joy, were you surprised
the president decided to throw that stone from the glass house in which he sits? >> you know, chris, i wish i could say i was surprised. i was kind of waiting for it. i had done a tweet in anticipation of it, just waiting for him to weigh in on al franken because donald trump can't help himself. he has no impulse control obviously. and because this is a democrat and he always relishes the opportunity to be able to accuse the other side of what he in fact has done. >> absolutely. >> i didn't collude, you colluded. russia didn't want me to win, they wanted you to win. whatever it is that he's guilty of, maybe it's something in his psychology, he cannot resist the opportunity to lash out at someone from the other side of the ideological aisle and say, no, no, no, you really did it. the thing that is so incredible -- i'm glad you played the entire clip. i literally was e-mailing my team, saying, what chris hayes just showed is so important in terms of showing all the women describing the behavior.
the very thing he's attacking al franken for, gross behavior toward a woman, kissing her without her consent and then the jum joke, the photo afterwards, but the kissing part of it is exactly what donald trump was proud to tell another man that he gets to do. he actually was proud of the fact that he gets to abuse women physically and grab them, do more than just kiss them. he says i just kiss them. i don't even wait. i just kiss them. that's what al franken is accused of doing. that's what he's accusing al franken of doing and saying al franken should pay for it with his job. donald trump is accused 15 times of sexual assault. he's being sued because he called one of those victims a liar. he is a proud sexual assaulter of women. he's not ashamed, he's proud of it. why is he in a position to keep his job if he and his supporters think al franken should not? they cannot answer that question, all they can do is cry i don't know, whatever. they think they're crying hypocrisy but they're the hypocrites. at least al franken apologized. >> one of the things that was so
perverse this morning was sarah huckabee sanders saying he's admitted and the president denies it, which flips everything around. like, lie and deny and say it never happened and attack the women, that is what you should do. if you admit it, then you're inviting more scrutiny. but, of course, that is precisely, precisely the playbook that is happening in alabama with roy moore. to the last bit. and i want to play this for you because what happened -- we all remember -- you and i were covering it together, right? we were there a year ago and all of these republicans rushed to the camera and saying, oh, i am just so upset about this. congressman chaffetz saying, you know, i can't look my daughter in the eyes. i can't look her in the eyes. i'm so upset about this. of course then voted for donald trump. that's exactly what they're doing in alabama. here is the governor of alabama who said i believe the women, i believe what they're saying is true, i'm going to vote for roy moore anyway. take a listen. >> i believe in the republican party and what we stand for, and most important, we need to have
a republican in the united states senate to vote on the things like supreme court justices, other appointments that the senate has to confirm and make major decisions. and so that's what i plan to do, is vote for the republican nominee roy moore. >> i mean, that's saying -- if you say i believe the women -- >> yep. >> -- who have said this about roy moore and i'm voting for roy moore, what you're saying is, i want a child molester -- seriously, that's what you're saying, i want a child molester to represent alabama in the senate. >> this is what happens when party becomes almost a religion. when it's child molester is -- having a child molester on the floor of the united states senate is better than having a democrat. that they would rather have someone like donald trump who is a braggadocious assaulter of women, somebody who isn't even embarrassed about being a sexual assaulter, but better him than
her. we have to have anything. we don't care how wicked, we don't care how much of a liar, we don't care how corrupt, we don't care what he is. this is what republicans have essentially told us about donald trump from the beginning. we don't care how low he takes this country, how low he takes this party, what a scoundrel he is, a scam artist, a con-man. and literally, it can be a child molester, as long as it's a republican. we will accept anything. we don't care how it damages the reputation of our party and our country. nothing comes before party. nothing. ever. the one thing you can't say about democrats is that. democrats threw anthony weiner over the side like they just met him. democrats, i mean, they're ready to throw bill clinton over the side 17 years later. but republicans have created a religion out of partisan affiliation and it doesn't matter what a republican has done as long as there's an r after his name and he's willing to vote through tax cuts for the rich, they don't care who he is. that's a sad thing to say about your party. >> all right. joy reid, always great to have you. thank you. >> thank you.
>> a columnist with the "washington post," francesca chambers, white house correspondent for "the daily mail." kathryn, at one point, kellyanne convey, i think, referred to the allegations against the president as old news. i wanted to yell at my tv set like that doesn't matter. it's all old news. all of this is old news. that's the whole point of what's going on here. nothing has ever been properly resolved. so it doesn't -- you don't get to say it's old news. >> of course you don't get to say it's old news. just because an election happened, just because, you know, sarah huckabee sanders says, well, the people have spoken. we already had an election and they have ruled. that is not in any way similar to having a full investigation, to having an indictment. if you really want to go down that road, to having any sort of jury trial, right? there is a reason why when there are criminal charges that are alleged, when there are victims who claim they have been assaulted, the way we resolve those claims is not by having a
political election, right? it's been having an investigation. that's how american jurisprudence works. >> francesca, you cover the white house and sit in that briefing room and i'm curious to get your perspective on how much you think the white house sweats this. and the context here, it was interesting to me that sarah huckabee sanders yesterday wanted to have nothing to do with the franken story. because i think the people around the president realized how exposed they are, even if the president doesn't. what's your sense sitting in that room? >> well, i think you make an interesting point. even if the president doesn't. because he obviously opened himself up to this comparison by tweeting about al franken when he did, which is seemingly why the white house didn't want to get too involved in the roy moore situation because the president has also been accused of sexually harassing women. what was problematic for the white house today was when sarah huckabee sanders was asked what's the difference between the two, she didn't say the difference is that the president
didn't do it and al franken has said he's sorry because he did do it, she said the difference is that al franken has apologized and the president has not admitted to wrongdoing. and so i think that was a problematic -- >> that's a great point. >> -- answer for this white house and that's why you're seeing that answer go around pretty aggressively. >> that's also -- that's also very consistent, by the way, with pretty much everything that donald trump has done wrong. his philosophy seems to be if you admit no wrongdoing, no wrong has been done, right? if you admit no mistake, no mistake has been made, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence such as being on tape. so this is not something we should be terribly surprised by sanders saying in that press conference. >> francesca, that's a great point. i want to hang a lantern on that point. sarah huckabee sanders doesn't
say "because he didn't do these things." >> she said in the past that these women aren't telling the truth. >> she called them liars, yes. >> but today when she was asked about it, very first question, straight out of the gate in the briefing, it was we addressed this aggressively during the campaign. there was an election as katherine pointed to and the american people decided. and also the difference is senator franken admitted to wrongdoing and the president did not. that was where she took these allegations. another point i'd like to make, chris, about today's briefing along the same exact lines was she claimed the president has weighed in on roy moore, but that is not accurate. >> nonsense. >> what happened during the trip, because i was on this trip, the president was asked about him, and said, look, i'm in asia, i'm not watching television, i'm not looped into this sort of thing. he said sarah made a statement on this on my behalf and that, you know, if the things he says are true, then he'll do -- if the things people are saying about him are true, then he'll
do the right thing. that's all the president said about this. when sarah said yesterday and today that the president has weighed in on this matter, the president has not weighed in on this matter. in fact, he's dodged questions about this on capitol hill and at the white house the entire week since he got back from asia. >> katherine, do you think it matters still, these allegations against the president, in the way that our politics function and the perception of him and in the ways that i think women particularly but citizens in general think about how they relate to this white house and whether they want to see this president in power? >> god, i hope they still matter. you know who i would like to ask a question of? it's not sarah huckabee sanders. i don't believe that she's ever going to flip and say, you know, maybe we should believe those women. we should be asking people like mitch mcconnell, why do you believe the accusers against roy moore and yet, you know, you don't apparently believe the accusers against president trump. you get those kinds of questions in front of influential people, you get them to respond and these questions will absolutely matter to the american public. >> yeah.
and we're going to post -- we'll post that montage that we played at the top of the show, which our -- the "all in" production team did an incredible job on. that was not me, that was them. people should watch that. one of the things happening in this moment is we are hearing a pattern to allegations with men. and there is an m.o. often. we've seen that with the allegations against roy moore and you hear them in the allegations against donald trump. you should watch those and think to yourselves, does that sound credible that all of these people who don't know each other report the same experience. >> thanks to you both. next, the breaking news in the russian backdoor overture and the remarkable consistency with which jared kushner just forgets details crucial to the russia investigation, even under penalty of perjury. what we've now learned in just two minutes. toddlers won't stop. and neither will lower back pain. because at a dr. scholl's kiosk he got a recommendation for our custom fit orthotic to relieve his foot, knee, or lower back pain, from being on his feet.
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i had no improper contacts. i have not relied on russian funds for my businesses. and i have been fully transparent in providing all requested information. >> well, things are not looking good for presidential senior adviser and son-in-law jared kushner. as you may recall, kushner has repeatedly had to update his security clearance forms because he did not disclose his foreign contacts before the inauguration. and they were hard contacts to forget, frankly. under penalty of perjury, kushner reportedly failed to disclose a meeting with russian ambassador sergey kislyak where he proposed a back channel between trump's transition team and the kremlin. also under penalty of perjury, kushner reportedly declined to disclose a secret meeting with the head of a sanctioned russian bank, one of more than 100 foreign contacts that kushner, again under penalty of perjury, did not initially disclose.
tonight, we have breaking news about more undisclosed kushner contacts with russians. two major developments tonight. with the reporters who got the story. we begin with nbc news investigative reporter ken dilanian, who has just published a piece with carol lee reporting that kushner failed to disclose what lawmakers call a russian backdoor overture and dinner invite with a banker who has been accused of having links to russian organized crime. what can you tell us? >> you know the letter went out yesterday from the senate judiciary committee accusing jared kushner withholding what they know about this russian backdoor overture and we immediately started to find out what that was. carol lee and i have learned it involved an e-mail chain about a proposed meeting by a russian official named aleksander torshin who is head of the russian central bank and been accused by spanish prosecutors of having mafia ties. which he denies. but he's reportedly very close to vladimir putin.
he was actually suggesting that he had a message he wanted to carry to trump from putin, and jared kushner's lawyer just now put out a statement about this so we know that kushner responded, according to his lawyer, pass on this. a lot of people come claiming to carry messages. very few we're able to verify. for now i think we decline such meetings. but, chris, we know that this same man told bloomberg news that he had dinner with donald trump jr. around the same time at a meeting on the sidelines of a national rifle association conference. so this is another example of a senior high-level russian seeking to infiltrate donald trump's inner circle and an example of kushner not coming clean about what he knew about it to congressional investigators. >> i should say kushner's lawyer says we didn't think this was germane to the document request and also we passed on it, so what's the big deal? >> right. >> to zoom out here, i want to be clear about this. you've got someone coming to the campaign saying we've got a guy who wants to set up a meeting possibly between trump and putin or pass a message, or how can we
get these people together, and he ends up, despite whatever happens in this e-mail chain, he ends up sitting next to don junior at a dinner at an nra conference later that year? >> according to him. now don jr. said he remembers it differently. that maybe the russian was at a different table, but don jr. acknowledges he spoke to a russian that evening. so, yes -- and congressional investigators, chris, know very little about how that meeting was set up. i think that's an active part of the investigation. another really important thing here, chris, is that jared kushner told both congressional committees that he did not recall any contacts between the campaign and wikileaks. and we learned this week that in fact kushner was forwarded an e-mail from don jr. about don jr.'s twitter contacts with wikileaks and jared kushner forwarded that e-mail on to hope hicks. he is under pressure to come back to congress and explain that discrepancy, chris. >> all right. ken dilanian, thanks for being with me tonight. on that wikileaks story, this week we learned that donald
trump jr. had exchanged messages with wikileaks and e-mailed senior campaign officials, including jared kushner, about those exchanges. there's an e-mail saying, i've been talking to wikileaks. we also learned that don jr. is among the e-mails, again, that kushner did not disclose to the committee. he's offered this explanation for not disclosing it. a communication which he was a copied recipient was not about russia contacts by him or apparently anyone else. not responsive to any request about mr. kushner's own contacts. here with more on that story is jenna maclachlan. intelligence reporter with "foreign policy magazine." what's the significance of the fact that the contacts with wikileaks were forwarded to campaign folks, including jared kushner? >> the significance is that jared kushner saw them, he was aware of them and passed them on to hope hicks. we see with kushner, he might be being selective with his words. he might be saying, oh, well, i
didn't actual communicate. i was just aware of it and passively forwarded it on. >> there is a key part of this. your reporting suggests during his capitol hill testimony he was actually asked about contacts with wikileaks, is that correct? >> yes, that is correct. and in several different sessions he denied that he or anyone else in the campaign had had any contact with wikileaks or julian assange. >> okay. that -- so i just want to be clear on that. so he repeatedly before congress, and i don't know if he was under oath or not, but before congress repeatedly said no one in the campaign nor he had any contact with julian assange, is that right? >> yes, multiple times he said that. >> that's not true. >> exactly. >> and not only is it not true, we know from the e-mail trail he would have cause to know that's not true because he was on e-mails from don jr. saying, i'm talking to julian, right? >> yeah, absolutely. he was certainly aware of that. maybe he has a different definition of communicating with wikileaks or communicating with
assange, but judging from these previous stories from this week, it sure seems like he may have been lying to congress, which is against the law. >> yeah. i want to be clear on that, it is a federal crime to lie to congress. it's not often enforced or prosecuted. he wasn't under oath but you're not supposed to do that. >> absolutely you're not supposed to do that. whether it's under oath or not, it is still against the law. >> it does seem to me he has racked up a lot of things he forgot. am i wrong? >> yeah, i mean, it seems like he has a very selective memory and no one has really asked him either about his ownership of the new york observer which per my story this week, was a pretty favorable outlet towards the wikileaks stories. >> that's interesting. jenna maclachlan, thanks for making time tonight. >> thanks so much. up next, remember this guy who set up don jr.'s trump tower meeting with the russians?
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it was the first concrete revelation showing that the trump campaign sought to collude with russia to get dirt on hillary clinton. and it came from an e-mail exchange with donald trump jr. -- june 3rd, 2016, trump jr. received an e-mail that said the so-called russian crowned prosecutor, an office that
doesn't exist, quote, offered to provide the trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia and would be very useful to your father. this is obviously very high-level and sensitive information, but it's part of russia and its government's support for mr. trump. trump jr. trumped at the chance to get dirt on his dad's political opponent from a foreign adversary, writing in part, if it's what you say, i love it. especially later in the summer. those e-mails eventually led to a june 9th meeting with a russian lawyer and others in trump tower. that meeting was attended by donald trump jr. and jared kushner, now a white house senior adviser, and former trump campaign chair paul manafort, recently indicted. much about that meeting remains unknown, but we soon could be learning more because the guy who set it all up, the guy who was on the other end of the e-mails with trump jr., he is apparently willing to speak to the robert mueller investigation. nbc news reporting tonight that while nothing is officially on the calender, a source close to the flamboyant publicist bob goldstone says he has been communicating with mueller's office through his lawyer.
goldstone who now lives in bangkok is ready to meet with the special counsel's team. sources telling nbc news, quote, they expect he will travel to the united states at some point in the near future, as one put it. joyce vance is a former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. nick ackerman is a former watergate prosecutor. nick, let's start with goldstone. why is he an important witness for mueller to talk to? >> well, he's extremely important because he was present at that meeting. he's also the person who said that, one, the russian government is backing donald trump and supporting his campaign, and, two, he's the one that notified don jr. that the russians have incriminating dirt on hillary clinton. now all of this really becomes to the forefront this week with all of these new revelations about wikileaks. about the fact that don jr. was having contact with wikileaks, that kushner knew about it. the reason that wikileaks is so significant is because they are
the organization that released the stolen clinton e-mails. the dirt, i am convinced that ron goldstone was talking about was those clinton e-mails that were stolen. and i think as a prosecutor my theory is very simple, goldstone or somebody else brought those e-mails to that meeting on june 9th. the donald trump campaign realized these were too hot to handle. they had to be released through another source and that source was wikileaks. and if you look at what we know now, over the course of time after that meeting, two weeks later roger stone has contact with guccifer 2.0, the russian hacker, and then wikileaks, and then we know that during that campaign there was an ongoing campaign between donald jr. and wikileaks. and the -- in response to that, he was actually going out there, sending out a url so people
could look at those e-mails. >> right. >> donald sr. was talking about those e-mails and, you know, what we're seeing now is all of this allegation of conspiracy and collusion coming together among the wikileaks, the trump campaign and the russian government. >> i feel like i just got the ackerman closing argument here. the goldstone point, joyce, i want to talk about a few things, but just to follow up on nick's point, goldstone -- the one line that has stuck with me of all of the different revelation as in some ways the most incriminating and the thing i think i would remember the most in realtime is goldstone saying to don jr. the russian government's support for your father. that was a thing he put in an e-mail on the record that had to just be very memorable to anyone that encountered that sentiment, particularly when it became clear the russian government was hacking various people's e-mails. >> it's absolutely true, chris, and it's really important to remember that it's a crime for a
foreign government to make a contribution to a united states election. so it's just remarkable that this didn't send up all sorts of red flags in the campaign. there should have been an immediate full stop on any additional conversation. and instead we have this remarkable, you know, if it's what you say, i love it communication back followed by the meeting. so at this point we have what's an important witness, a material witness. he provides mueller certainly with fuller context for the meeting and its setup, but also perhaps with critically important information about russian involvement because you have to remember that although we're very focused on the trump family and trump associated, -- trump associates, there's also potentially a crime here involving the russians, who were attempting to inappropriately interfere with a united states election. >> yeah. let me ask you this about kushner. i'm going to ask you both this same question. if you're on the other side from jared kushner's lawyers after
all of these failures to disclose, oversights, et cetera. nick, what are you thinking about what they are up to? >> think it's pretty obvious. jared kushner is up to obstructing the congressional committees. he's not being forthcoming. he's not telling the truth. he's not providing the documents that are relevant. they all have to come out from some other source in order for anybody to learn about them. he's lied multiple times on his national security clearance form. he hasn't told the truth about all of the various russian contacts that he's had meetings with. that in and of itself is a crime. the fact that they are hiding something about wikileaks and the fact of these stolen documents leads me to believe that we probably have violations of the federal computer crimes statute, the computer fraud and abuse act that makes it illegal and criminal to deal in passwords, as donald trump jr.
received such a password that was stolen on a particular anti-trump website. they're also dealing in stolen e-mails, which is a state felony in new york. so there are a whole series of criminal acts that may wind up being proven out of what is coming out just this week as we start to put it all together. >> joyce, as a prosecutor when you got someone across from you in your crosshairs and you get this incrementalization of revelation like we've seen, is that all there is? >> yeah. then they come back, is that all there is? totally. what are you thinking as a prosecutor? >> i'm expecting that as a prosecutor. in every case where i've sat across the table from a medium level drug dealer, a top level drug dealer, it's always incremental truth telling. you never get it all at once. it's the hallmark of the guilty and i agree with nick that there is a lot to look at here involving the hacks, but we also have kushner's false statements on his security forms.
those look pretty cut and dry. >> yeah. >> now if the reporting we're hearing tonight is true, that he testified under oath or perhaps even not under oath in front of congressional committees and said there had been no contacts with wikileaks and the campaign, when he not only received e-mails, but presumably read them, because we're told he forwarded them on to hope hicks. he's in a lot of trouble and those are easy counts to make before we get into nick's charges. >> thanks for your time. >> thank you. still ahead, from a massive oil leak from the keystone pipeline to this photo shoot with the treasury secretary and his wife, the week that was the trump administration. and next, challenge accepted in tonight's "thing one, thing two" right after this.
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central claims of the trump tax plan. white house chief economic adviser gary cohn has argued giving huge permanent tax cuts to corporations actually benefits average americans, arguing that the ceos will use the extra cash to invest, create jobs, and raise wages. this week, at "the wall street journal's" conference with gary cohn on stage, not anyone ceos -- not any actual ceos agreed. >> do you plan to increase your company's capital investment? just a show of hands. if tax reform goes through. okay. >> why aren't the other hands up? >> why aren't the other hands up? >> why aren't more hands up? that's a big deal because it's one of the key selling points if not the key selling point of their tax plan. so today chief white house economist kevin hassett was asked that question. >> gary cohn said why aren't there more hands going up, can you answer that? >> that's a great question. and i went on a little bit after gary cohn, and when they asked
that question, it was kind of hard for me, because like here, there are really bright lights, but even brighter there. when i was there, it looked like maybe half the hands went up. i think if you go back and look, it could be that people had time to think about it. >> well, we did look. kevin hassett's audience estimation skills is thing two in 60 seconds. you nervous? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
when white house chief economist kevin hassett first sat down at "the wall street journal" ceo council conference, the moderator did a poll of the ceos in the audience. >> please put up your hand if you think the economy is going to sustain that pace of growth of 3% for the months ahead. >> i'd say about half. >> i'd give it closer to a third, but we'll say a third to a half. >> okay. so a little disagreement there. kevin hassett says half, the moderator says a third, but they also redid a poll from earlier. remember when gary cohn was on stage and just a smattering of
ceos said the extra money from the trump corporate tax cut would encourage them to invest more, one of the central arguments for the tax plan in the first place. surely this time the answer would be overwhelming, right? >> again, please raise your hand if you're planning to pick up your own pace of investment in the next year. >> same people. >> another third to a half -- >> at least 70% i'd say. the lights are bright. >> a third to a half or if you estimate with a folksy laugh, maybe 70%. >> about the same people. >> another third to a half. >> at least 70% i'd say. the lights are bright. a smoker. it's like when am i gonna ber. able to sneak out of here and go have a cigarette? i just knew i had to quit, and chantix was the method that actually worked for me. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke.
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>> i just think it would be nice just tonight before we go home to just acknowledge, well, this tax cut really is not for the middle class, it's for the rich. the whole thing about higher wages, well, it's a good selling point, but we know companies don't just gives away higher wages just because they have more money. corporations are sitting on a lot of money now. they're sitting on a lot of profits now. i don't see wages going up. just spare us the bank shot, spare us the sarcasm and the satire and -- >> i'm going to spare it, but i'm just going to say to you that i come from the poor people and i've been here working my whole stinking career for people who don't have a chance and i resent anybody saying i'm just doing this for the rich. give me a break. i get kind of sick and tired of it. true, it's a nice political play. >> well, mr. chairman. >> but it's not true. >> with all due respect -- i get sick and tired of the richest people -- >> regular order, mr. chairman.
regular order! [ all speak at once ] >> order. >> we do a -- >> order. >> middle class -- >> regular order. >> and over and over again -- >> wait just a second -- >> how many times do we do this before we learn this? >> listen, i've honored you by allowing you to spout off here.. if we work together we can pull this country out of the mess its in. i think i've got a reputation of having worked together with -- >> let's start with chip. >> i'm not starting with chip. i've done it for years. i've done more -- >> start with chip today. >> more bills passed than everybody on this committee put together. now all i can say is i like you personally very much, but i'm telling you, this bull crap that you throw out here really gets old. do it right at the end of this. >> reminder that senator sherrod brown's reference to chip is the children's health insurance program and that nine million children and low income families might lose that coverage because congress missed the september 30th deadline to renew it.
as for all the poor people senator hatch was fighting for, the senate tax plan would raise taxes on the poor by 2021. and just to boost the republican control and government's optics even further, here's steve mnuchin and his wife puzing with newly minted money to commemorate the first batch of bills bearing mnuchin's signature. the insane week that was in our new and insane reality, next.
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donald trump is the president which means that in this crazy week, we haven't even had a chance to mention that the keystone pipeline leaked 210,000 gallons of oil in south dakota yesterday. quote, just days before regulators in neighboring nebraska decide whether to grant the final permit to begin construction of the keystone xl which would be operated by the same company. that is the same keystone xl which would be operated by the same company. that is the same keystone xl that trump has supported tweeting out two years ago, so sad that obama rejected keystone pipeline, thousands of jobs, good for the environment, no downside. huh. the former deputy labor tech tear under president barack obama and josh barro, chris, i want to start with you because keystone, it was a very big controversial issue in that white house when you worked in it, when you were cabinet secretary, what does it say to you to watch this spill happen as xl starts to move towards possible construction approval. >> we were warned about this. environmentalists warned about this for years and it's one of the reasons why the obama administration decided not to go forward with this.
inexplicably during the campaign, donald trump said that approving the pipeline would be better for the environment. he clearly took no time to understand anything about tar, sands, oils, and what happens when it spills. i was a deputy secretary of labor. i like when we create jobs, but the number of permanent jobs created by ski ton is 35. and that simply doesn't justify the environmental risk that we saw today over the last couple of days. >> and we might see more as time goes on. josh, you've been -- i feel like in this week that, you know, between roy moore and al franken and the president, you know, this major piece of legislation passed out of the house, the tax bill, we saw that contentious mark-up in the senate and the most remarkable thing to me is the distributional weight of this senate bill, and you saw orin hatch get so mad at sherrod brown. it's weird to take um bridge at something that's the true thing about the bill that you're passing. >> the weird thing is here,
they're having a disagreement about a factual question about what's in the bill, and it's partly because the republicans impute something that's not written in there which is to say some parts of this bill are permanent and some of them are temporary. they don't run for the full ten-year budget window because they don't have enough money to do all the middle income tax increases. what republicans scene and i think they believe this is well congress will come back in the future and extend those things. we will take care of those middle income families. when you look at the distribution tables, they look better in the first year or the 10th or 11th year. we'll come back, change the rules so it looks more like that going forward. democrats perfectly reasonably say well you didn't write that into the law, and that's going to depend on political and economic considerations at the time that those decisions have to be made and sometimes temporary tax cuts are temporary. there's also sort of exploding stuff in this bill, changes in the way inflation adjustments are done that sound small and technical, they amount to small tax increases on ordinary families every year forever. i think republicans are focussed
on that year one thing, not owning up to what's coming in future years. democrats are focussed on what's in future years. >> so one thing that unites this tax bill which a lot of people pointed to the ways it would benefit the trump family and the trump heirs, is this other piece of news which flew a little under the radar which is the trump administration to lift ban on trophy elephant imports which you think to yourself, that's a weird policy. the president tonight tweeting he's put it under review. they're not going to implement the lifting of the ban right away and they're going to review it. the reason that connects to the tax bill is because of course the president's sons are big game hunters and we know how much they personally like to do trophy hunting. it sometimes can look a little like the entire white house is being run for the benefit of the trump family, chris. >> well, that's exactly right. there's not a lot of americans clambering to do trophy hunting for elephants and lions, except for donald jr. and eric. and clearly, he did this for his sons.
there was a widespread backlash, including by the chairman, the republican chairman of the house foreign affairs committee and he finally backtracked on this which was a sensible thing. that may be the only good piece of news that happened this week. >> josh, i couldn't believe they backtracked. my question is on the tax bill, do the politics of this which look terrible right now in the polling of the distribution, do they matter ultimately? >> i think the politics are going to matter in the election. the polling shows that the poll is unpopular, and when you ask, do you think they'll get a tax cut from it. a small fraction believes they will personally benefit. you can look in other countries, it was a tax reform that did in margaret thatcher in the uk. people notice these things when they affect their daily bottom line, almost everyone files an income tax return. it's larger than the number of people who buy insurance through the obamacare individual market and that was an enormous issue. i think republicans still pressure from donors. there's likely to be voter backlash. >> it's a great point. you're going to notice whether you're paying more taxes or not. thank you both. >> thank you. that is all in for this evening,
good night. good evening, i'm lawrence o'donnell, this is tonight's last word live from los angeles tonight. president trump and republican leaders in congress won some very important votes yesterday but president trump doesn't seem to want voters thinking about that tonight. he doesn't want trump voters thinking about it. he doesn't want democratic voters thinking about it. he doesn't want independents thinking about it because votes that donald trump won in congress yesterday hurt all of those voters. the trump tax cuts that passed the house of representatives and the senate finance committee are the worst pieces of tax legislation that have ever passed the house of representatives and the senate finance committee. the worst. but the full senate hasn't voted on the bill yet. and donald trump seems to believe that the more voters know about the tax bill the more